i found this stupid video

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Re: i found this stupid video

Post by Skeletor » Sat Sep 03, 2022 5:17 pm

Ashenai wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 9:37 pm "Why is everyone so happy? Except Phil?"
still thinking about this

phil is an absurdly interesting dude. his book was actually the first poker book i read, back when the poker boom was getting started in the early aughts. then i read some other books and back then, his book was already extremely outdated. just filled with objectively bad play

since then poker has had multiple phases of significantly better understanding of optimal play, and phil's play hasn't gotten any better. i'm pretty sure 20 years ago he'd have been torn up in top online cash games. and top 2012 players would tear up top 2002 players and top 2022 players would tear up top 2012 players

in 2018, this dude, the king of salt, wrote a book called #positivity which is basically like, you just gotta believe you're gonna flop a set. the odds don't matter, what matters is manifesting your destiny

and it somehow all makes sense, because in fact he just continues to destroy at the world series of poker. it makes sense of the salt, because he just expects his long shots to come in. but it also makes sense that he'd expect this when his results are so much better than everyone else at the wsop. he just keeps winning bracelets
wow, [you]. that all sounds terrible. i hope it gets better for you

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Re: i found this stupid video

Post by Ashenai » Sat Sep 03, 2022 5:32 pm

He keeps winning tournaments and keeps losing at cash games, it's pretty interesting.

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Re: i found this stupid video

Post by Crunchums » Thu Sep 08, 2022 4:07 am

Skeletor wrote:since then poker has had multiple phases of significantly better understanding of optimal play
would be curious to hear you unpack this more
also i remember hearing that AI "solved" poker at some point semi-recently - is that actually true?
u gotta skate

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Re: i found this stupid video

Post by Ashenai » Thu Sep 08, 2022 5:01 am

AI is now better at poker than the best human players, like for chess and go.

I don't think it "solved" poker though, as I understand it there's still room for even stronger poker AI.

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Re: i found this stupid video

Post by Ashenai » Thu Sep 08, 2022 5:04 am

Oh apparently heads-up (two-player) limit hold'em is actually solved.

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Re: i found this stupid video

Post by Skeletor » Thu Sep 08, 2022 2:47 pm

yeah ashe is right

when i started, david sklasnky's books and other books 2+2 published were what everyone was reading. this is the starting point that i was saying is already miles ahead of phil's book

it's all about counting outs, working out the odds of winning, comparing that to the pot, working out how much value it is to bluff if they fold x% if the time plus whatever equity you have from your outs if they call. it's a very mathematical approach to the game, and these books all involve example hand after example hand, they're just filled with hand after hand and then an analysis of the hand

so the next phase is the early 2+2 forums phase where everyone is reading those books and extending the approach on the forums. thousands of users making zillions of posts, you post a hand you played that you wonder about, multiple people help you analyze it or at least give their reaction about what they'd have done. so this is sort of an amplification of things, and everyone starts tracking all their hands with software and as a group starts developing some new things too with all this data

i was playing through this phase and i quit about the same time as jorbs started up. my understanding is this amplification process continued, play continued to change in response, and people started going deeper on explicit ranges. when i was posting people talked about ranges, and there were range calculators, but it was mostly about outs. outs are like a really fuzzy view of ranges. it's like, i have a flush draw, i probably win if i hit the flush so those are my outs, i probably lose if i don't. so i do all my math based on getting the flush or not basically

ranges are more exact, and when people start working out more exact ranges for their opponent, they start talking more about their own ranges. this is a step toward GTO (game theory optimal) type of play, where you're not just considering hands in isolation, but considering that if you take this line with this hand, then it has implications about what lines you can take with other hands

my knowledge of how things progress is increasingly on the sidelines here but at some point limit holdem becomes a thing where humans can't beat computers. and at some point heads up limit even becomes fully solved. no-limit is still ok for a while, but computers eventually can beat everyone at that too; next humans move to omaha which eventually also falls

at this point top players use the computers to "run sims" which is probably analogous to usage of engines in chess
wow, [you]. that all sounds terrible. i hope it gets better for you

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Re: i found this stupid video

Post by Rylinks » Thu Sep 08, 2022 2:53 pm

it's not quite analogous since a big part of poker is playing exploitatively--if you are at a table where you are struggling to play computer-perfect you probably should just not be at that table

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Re: i found this stupid video

Post by Skeletor » Thu Sep 08, 2022 2:54 pm

i almost clarified that it's kind-of-analagous but then i realized that analogy gets to be fuzzy
wow, [you]. that all sounds terrible. i hope it gets better for you

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Re: i found this stupid video

Post by Crunchums » Thu Sep 08, 2022 3:27 pm

thank you for the effort-post
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Re: i found this stupid video

Post by Luna » Sat Sep 10, 2022 12:26 am


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Re: i found this stupid video

Post by Doug » Sat Sep 10, 2022 1:16 am

I had a stack of 45s when I was little
It's your turn in Cthulhu Wars
It's your turn in Squirrel Wars
It's your turn in Demon Wars
It's your turn in Wall Street Wars

http://devilsbiscuit.com/

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Re: i found this stupid video

Post by Crunchums » Tue Sep 13, 2022 8:55 pm

u gotta skate

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Re: i found this stupid video

Post by Crunchums » Tue Sep 20, 2022 3:38 am

u gotta skate

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Re: i found this stupid video

Post by Ashenai » Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:39 pm


if i'm ever kidnapped and held at an undisclosed location, send the ransom video to this fuckin dude

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Re: i found this stupid video

Post by Skeletor » Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:36 pm

and if he can't solve it we know he's fuckin' guilty!
wow, [you]. that all sounds terrible. i hope it gets better for you

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Re: i found this stupid video

Post by Ashenai » Sat Sep 24, 2022 7:03 pm

My favorite part was when he was like ah yes, this soil is probably from north botswana, and then he went aww, it's actually further to the east. still north botswana though

And obviously I just thought, you fool. you absolute buffoon. imagine confusing north botswanan soil with northeast botswanan soil.

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Re: i found this stupid video

Post by Skeletor » Sat Sep 24, 2022 11:56 pm

well now i know where to take you when i kidnap you and hold you for ransom. northeast botswana
wow, [you]. that all sounds terrible. i hope it gets better for you

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Re: i found this stupid video

Post by Jeb Bush 2012 » Sun Sep 25, 2022 1:27 am

Ashenai wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:39 pm if i'm ever kidnapped and held at an undisclosed location, send the ransom video to this fuckin dude
not kidnapping, but this has been used to find a lost hiker based on a single photo https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyl ... te-rescue/

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Re: i found this stupid video

Post by Ashenai » Sun Sep 25, 2022 1:32 am

extremely cool!

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Re: i found this stupid video

Post by Crunchums » Mon Sep 26, 2022 1:45 am

u gotta skate

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Re: i found this stupid video

Post by Ashenai » Mon Sep 26, 2022 11:20 am


lol this is so cool/funny/clever

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Re: i found this stupid video

Post by pterrus » Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:02 pm

We saw Penn and Teller in Vegas, which I highly recommend. They opened with a trick where they get a volunteer's phone and start recording. The prestige is, surprise, the volunteer's phone is inside a fish and Penn drops the punchline, "this trick is called cell fish!" But the easter egg is that the camera keeps rolling so the volunteer gets to see how it's done.

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Re: i found this stupid video

Post by Crunchums » Tue Oct 11, 2022 4:00 pm

u gotta skate

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Re: i found this stupid video

Post by Ashenai » Thu Oct 13, 2022 6:18 am


I like the idea of a replayable puzzle

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Re: i found this stupid video

Post by pterrus » Tue Oct 18, 2022 7:24 pm

I feel like I've seen a lot of body cam video of cops being shitty, you never see the good ones. But this guy, holy shit.

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Re: i found this stupid video

Post by Ashenai » Wed Oct 19, 2022 2:51 am

Damn. Good cop.

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Re: i found this stupid video

Post by Blissful » Wed Oct 19, 2022 12:59 pm

i kind of feel like i should have just read the summary rather than listened to haunting screams and the sound of a guy fearing for his life
Image

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Re: i found this stupid video

Post by pterrus » Wed Oct 19, 2022 1:42 pm

The Facebook page of the cop killer is still up and has the following picture. He's the groom, pointing the pistol at the camera.
15027742_10157969226580019_115190226522353547_n.jpg
15027742_10157969226580019_115190226522353547_n.jpg (124.18 KiB) Viewed 2906 times

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Re: i found this stupid video

Post by Ashenai » Wed Oct 19, 2022 1:53 pm


man, fuck playing paper magic

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Re: i found this stupid video

Post by Skeletor » Wed Oct 19, 2022 2:16 pm

Blissful wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 12:59 pm i kind of feel like i should have just read the summary rather than listened to haunting screams and the sound of a guy fearing for his life
i paused and read the summary and thought "alright im good"
wow, [you]. that all sounds terrible. i hope it gets better for you

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