POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Probably what *this* should be called.
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Dantes
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Dantes » Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:36 pm

The rebellion and insurrection point is important language for the marketing campaign portion of this. If you can get people to accept the idea that this was an insurrection and tie that to Trump, then you can start making 14th Amendment arguments.

Not that it would stand up in any court other than the Court of Public opinion.
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Rylinks » Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:41 pm

I just saw that there's 70 convictions for 1512, but still all of them might fall depending on a coming DC circuit ruling

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Rylinks » Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:51 pm

the 1512 charges are a bit of a reach but the government is really trying to get convictions beyond tresspassing or disorderly conduct because of how they view this as a serious event

e: reach meaning that the government took an expansive reading of a catchall section of a law about witness tampering and falsifying documents

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Doug » Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:58 pm

Dantes wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:19 pm The actual convictions for the riot are real and well earned.
Well no, in fact there's this dude who just showed us that "Q Shaman" Jake Angeli was convicted of obstructing an official proceeding despite being led around by Capitol Police on a virtual tour of the Capitol and not told by them that he is obstructing anything and must leave

Some dude named Tucker Carlson showed us this just this week
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Khaos » Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:06 pm

thats fucked up but also the amount of jailed time was fucked up to begin with

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Dantes » Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:09 pm

Doug wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:58 pm
Dantes wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:19 pm The actual convictions for the riot are real and well earned.
Well no, in fact there's this dude who just showed us that "Q Shaman" Jake Angeli was convicted of obstructing an official proceeding despite being led around by Capitol Police on a virtual tour of the Capitol and not told by them that he is obstructing anything and must leave

Some dude named Tucker Carlson showed us this just this week
I'm so glad you went there, because it gives me a chance to link to analysis about that from an experienced prosecutor with unimpeachable conservative credentials.

Tucker is selling you a narrative. He is a known bad actor. Taking anything he shows you, and in particular anything he says about what he shows you, uncritically at face value is a fools game.
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Dantes » Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:10 pm

Rylinks wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:51 pm the 1512 charges are a bit of a reach but the government is really trying to get convictions beyond tresspassing or disorderly conduct because of how they view this as a serious event

e: reach meaning that the government took an expansive reading of a catchall section of a law about witness tampering and falsifying documents
Yeah, that's my take as well.
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Khaos » Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:12 pm

do you think 41 months is a suitable amount of time for what he did, as the author of that article seems to think?

it does make sense that the police are not going to try and arrest non-violent protestors/rioters/insurrectionists/whatevers

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Dantes » Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:27 pm

Khaos wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:12 pm do you think 41 months is a suitable amount of time for what he did, as the author of that article seems to think?
Considering that the maximum penalty is twenty years? I'm fine with that sentence. Whether the US over criminalizes things and whether US criminal penalties are entirely too harsh are different questions. In the context of this crime, he got off with a relative slap on the wrist that will see him serve a year or so and then likely send him home if he keeps his head down.
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Doug » Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:32 pm

Dantes wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:09 pm unimpeachable
During the presidency of Barack Obama, McCarthy characterized Obama as a radical and a socialist, and authored a book alleging that Obama was advancing a "Sharia Agenda".
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Rylinks » Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:36 pm

Dantes wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:27 pm
Khaos wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:12 pm do you think 41 months is a suitable amount of time for what he did, as the author of that article seems to think?
Considering that the maximum penalty is twenty years? I'm fine with that sentence. Whether the US over criminalizes things and whether US criminal penalties are entirely too harsh are different questions. In the context of this crime, he got off with a relative slap on the wrist that will see him serve a year or so and then likely send him home if he keeps his head down.
the maximum doesn't mean anything--in the sentencing guidelines the offense is level 14, which carries 15-21 months of imprisonment with no criminal history, so the court either found aggravating factors, he had criminal history, or the court chose to depart from the sentancing guidelines because of the unusual nature of January 6

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by s. goblin » Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:42 pm

Dantes wrote:
I'm so glad you went there, because it gives me a chance to link to analysis about that from an experienced prosecutor with unimpeachable conservative credentials.

Tucker is selling you a narrative. He is a known bad actor. Taking anything he shows you, and in particular anything he says about what he shows you, uncritically at face value is a fools game.
the problem with this guy is that he's not thinking deep enough.

if the worst thing to happen to america since 9/11 was a political plot, let's say, and let's say a team has actually used it, then i think ... maybe conspiratorially, we could maybe perhaps also think that a non violent weirdo getting toured around the building by cops could maybe possibly have gotten put there.

like, maybe, perhaps, a team wanted this to happen. made this happen! there is video evidence of people being pulled inside by at least one d00d with an ear piece.

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Rylinks » Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:48 pm

Rylinks wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:36 pm
Dantes wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:27 pm
Khaos wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:12 pm do you think 41 months is a suitable amount of time for what he did, as the author of that article seems to think?
Considering that the maximum penalty is twenty years? I'm fine with that sentence. Whether the US over criminalizes things and whether US criminal penalties are entirely too harsh are different questions. In the context of this crime, he got off with a relative slap on the wrist that will see him serve a year or so and then likely send him home if he keeps his head down.
the maximum doesn't mean anything--in the sentencing guidelines the offense is level 14, which carries 15-21 months of imprisonment with no criminal history, so the court either found aggravating factors, he had criminal history, or the court chose to depart from the sentancing guidelines because of the unusual nature of January 6
two additional factors "U.S.S.G. §2J1.2(b)(1)(B) because the offense involved causing or threatening to cause physical injury to a person in order to obstruct the administration of justice, which garners an additional 8 points, and U.S.S.G. § 2J1.2(b)(2) for substantial interference with the administration of justice, which adds 3 points.", which leads to a guideline of 41-51 months, and he got the low end of the range

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Magical » Fri Mar 10, 2023 12:44 am

I did find it funny that McCarthy talked about how it was a mistake to give the footage to an opinion journalist, and that it should have instead gone to an objective, centre-right journalist.

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Magical » Fri Mar 10, 2023 12:46 am

Dantes wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:17 pm
Magical wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:31 pm Maybe you can add some extra importance to the events when you consider the pretexts about stolen elections and where they occurred, but back in the day I definitely remember it being presented like, they forced entry and swiped some souvenirs. Perhaps moreso by certain grobot posters than an American media I don't watch, though.
I don't want to minimize it, and that feels like minimizing it. It was appalling, it was unprecedented, and it Trump was morally and ethically, if not legally, culpable for what happened. It still wasn't a rebellion or an insurrection.
That's very fair. And to be clear before, when I said "I dunno about Dantes" I meant that in the sense of "I don't want to speak for Dantes". Realised after it could be taken as implying more.

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Dantes » Fri Mar 10, 2023 1:35 pm

Magical wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 12:46 am
Dantes wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:17 pm
Magical wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:31 pm Maybe you can add some extra importance to the events when you consider the pretexts about stolen elections and where they occurred, but back in the day I definitely remember it being presented like, they forced entry and swiped some souvenirs. Perhaps moreso by certain grobot posters than an American media I don't watch, though.
I don't want to minimize it, and that feels like minimizing it. It was appalling, it was unprecedented, and it Trump was morally and ethically, if not legally, culpable for what happened. It still wasn't a rebellion or an insurrection.
That's very fair. And to be clear before, when I said "I dunno about Dantes" I meant that in the sense of "I don't want to speak for Dantes". Realised after it could be taken as implying more.
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Doug » Fri Mar 10, 2023 3:35 pm


I think electrics are here to stay, if the performance keeps increasing like this
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Doug » Fri Mar 10, 2023 4:36 pm

It's your turn in Cthulhu Wars
It's your turn in Squirrel Wars
It's your turn in Demon Wars
It's your turn in Wall Street Wars

http://devilsbiscuit.com/

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Doug » Fri Mar 10, 2023 6:10 pm

The House of Representatives on Friday unanimously voted to declassify information on possible links between the Wuhan Institute of Virology and the Covid-19 pandemic, sending the bill to President Joe Biden.

The Senate also voted unanimously earlier this month to require Director of National Intelligence Avril Haines to declassify such information.

Nice
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Dantes » Fri Mar 10, 2023 7:00 pm

Doug wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 4:36 pm
Good read. I wonder if that hard for her to write, or cathartic?
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by seathesee » Fri Mar 10, 2023 7:18 pm

Doug wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 4:36 pm
that was really powerful. thank you for posting it.
with love, your good friend, seathesee

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by pterrus » Fri Mar 10, 2023 7:28 pm

It was a good read and I'm duly mad at the mainstream media, but I can't help but raise the minor objection that the right's media lies to them even harder. Yeah yeah I know this is whataboutism but come on man.

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by seathesee » Fri Mar 10, 2023 7:31 pm

pterrus wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 7:28 pm It was a good read and I'm duly mad at the mainstream media, but I can't help but raise the minor objection that the right's media lies to them even harder. Yeah yeah I know this is whataboutism but come on man.
i dont know about even harder, but sure.

the problem is the left is the mainstream wrt news media. theyre supposed to be the trusted institution. theyre supposed to be better. weve had like three issues in a row now where the mainstream media has been acting as a propaganda arm of the democrat party (trump/russia, covid, and january 6th).
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by pterrus » Fri Mar 10, 2023 7:44 pm

I'm struggling with how much the media is at fault for their reporting on January 6th. I mean it sure as shit looked bad, and I don't get the impression that folks in the media were deliberately lying about it. I think it really took the new footage coming out to put it in a different light.

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by seathesee » Fri Mar 10, 2023 7:55 pm

i might be biased. here are a selection of things i said in this thread january 6, 2021 to january 8, 2021:
seathesee wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:27 am its funny. youd think this would be something id be worried about, but after the months of rioting just across the river, and the fact that todays events are way over there, and confined to a very small area, and have absolutely no chance of accomplishing anything other than the death, injury, or imprisonment of the participants, this just feels like a slightly below average stress typical day.
seathesee wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:45 am
Fry Guy wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:24 am
seathesee wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:21 am
Fry Guy wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:20 am
Looking at how easy it was for them to get in, they could have easily blown some shit up and hurt a lot of people.
so like most buildings then.
I don't think most buildings have the same level of security.
im not sure the point youre making i guess. a lot of things could have happened. none of the really bad ones did. they could have blown up the capitol building. they didnt. they trespassed. they stole things. they took selfies. pretty tame for a riot compared to what weve seen the past 365 days.
seathesee wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:04 pm its kind of weird to me that people keep talking about the capitol building like its some secret high security clearance military base, when in actuality it is open to the public monday-saturday from 8:30 a.m. to 4:30 p.m.
to me, this was all pretty obviously overblown from the get go.
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by pterrus » Fri Mar 10, 2023 7:57 pm

Oh yeah I remember having an argument with my wife immediately afterward about whether you could call it a coup. It was clearly not a coup! But she wasn't lying, you know? Just kind of arguing from a biased position.

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Doug » Fri Mar 10, 2023 7:59 pm

Everybody remembers that protestors scream and yell and interrupt sessions of Congress, confirmation hearings, etc. all the time, right
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Dantes » Fri Mar 10, 2023 8:30 pm

pterrus wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 7:28 pm It was a good read and I'm duly mad at the mainstream media, but I can't help but raise the minor objection that the right's media lies to them even harder. Yeah yeah I know this is whataboutism but come on man.
This is weak sauce.

The purpose of the media is to report the news without fear or favor. Fidelity to the truth is supposed to be the only thing that matters. Once a news organization starts lying to its audience, it doesn't matter that some other news org arguably did it even harder.
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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Rylinks » Fri Mar 10, 2023 8:31 pm

the purpose of the media has never been achieved in US history

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Re: POLITICS MOTHERFUCKER

Post by Dantes » Fri Mar 10, 2023 8:38 pm

seathesee wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 7:31 pm
pterrus wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 7:28 pm It was a good read and I'm duly mad at the mainstream media, but I can't help but raise the minor objection that the right's media lies to them even harder. Yeah yeah I know this is whataboutism but come on man.
i dont know about even harder, but sure.

the problem is the left is the mainstream wrt news media. theyre supposed to be the trusted institution. theyre supposed to be better. weve had like three issues in a row now where the mainstream media has been acting as a propaganda arm of the democrat party (trump/russia, covid, and january 6th).
The issue list is much larger and the problem has been around for a long time: Dan Rather, Jayson Blair, Rolling Stone: A Rape on Campus, Steven Glass, Nicholas Sandman reporting, Jussie Smollett, NBC protecting Harvey Weinstein, Kyle Rittenhouse reporting, I could go on.

There is a reason that public trust in the media has utterly cratered.
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